Christian parenting

00:09Pastor Ken:Welcome back to Real Talk with PK, where we talk about real life, real struggles, and how our faith meets us right in the middle of it. All month long, we're doing a series about parenting. And what I love about this series is that these aren't questions that Rachel and I come up with ourselves. No, these are real questions coming from parents and families in our church here at CrossPoint, Real life scenarios. And today we've got some really good ones to talk about with you tonight on this podcast. We're going to talk about phones and technology, teaching kids how to value money, keeping teenagers connected to the church. And a good one is how our kids are dressing in today's society. We've been given a lot. And what about? Here's another question that came in. What do you do when you don't like the person your child is dating? That's a lot of stuff that we're going to be talking about tonight. So how do you raise children who know how to make and how to make wise decisions when mom and dad aren't standing beside them? Because eventually, that's where parenting has to go. When they're little, we make most of their decisions. But as we grow and as they grow, our job is to begins to change. We're moving from controlling to coaching to counseling. And eventually they will control their own phone, they'll spend their own money, they'll decide whether they go to church or not. They'll choose who they're going, how they're going to represent themselves, and who they're going to date and eventually marry. So parenting can't simply be about teaching our children what to do. We've got to teach them how to think. Proverbs chapter 4, verse 7 says this. The beginning of wisdom is this, get wisdom. I like that. The beginning of wisdom is this, get wisdom. So today we're talking about raising wise kids in a changing world today on REAL TALK. All right. Hello, my beautiful wife.

02:32Rachel:How are you? I'm great.

02:34Pastor Ken:Thank you. Glad you're here again. Thank you. I'm loving this series that

02:38Rachel:we're doing. Me too.

02:39Pastor Ken:Trying to help our parents and our church to be successful

02:43Rachel:parents. Yes, it's a great topic for

02:45Pastor Ken:sure. It really is so. Well, without further ado, let's get into these questions. We got some humdingers tonight. We do. So I hope you prayed before this podcast. So question #1 is how do you successfully limit kids, phones and technology? Now, I just before you get going here, I think this is probably one of the biggest parenting challenges of our generation. It's not so much in our generation where we raised our children, but today's generation. I think previous generations worried about their children who might what what they might encounter outside their home. That was you and I, how we grew up. This generation is they're combating things that come inside their home through their phone. So we had a.

03:37Rachel:Little bit of that with with the computer, you know, and so we would always want to make sure that our computers were out in the open where we could always see what was going on. Our kids didn't have computers in their room. They didn't have laptops. And so we had two desktop computers that they used for their homework. And so we, you know, we definitely had a different, we had different concerns. I mean, now they still have computers nowadays, but in addition to that, we now have cell phones, yeah. And so that their computer is a six inch screen, right? Yeah, it's a it's a tough one. It is very tough. So, yeah, great question and it is a question that we do get asked a lot. So these are several of these are ones that parents will just ask us randomly, you know, hey, we need your thoughts on this. And so these are really good ones for us to.

04:24Pastor Ken:I like what the Bible says, Paul says in First Corinthians chapter 6 verse 12. I will not be mastered by anything. And I think a lot of the kids today are being mastered by their phones. I mean, even adults are. I mean, let's be honest, We, we,

04:40Rachel:we all. We call it scoliosis in our in our house. You know the thumb that just wants to go and scroll and scroll and scroll. I have AI have a little note by my desk that says social media is fake work because even adults, you know, we sometimes think we're being productive about our day, but we're on social media maybe scrolling for a little while. And you have to remind yourself like, hey, this is fake work. But dealing with kids, it is a big topic. There's guardrails that have to be put up. It's very, it can be very dangerous and very concerning for parents. And so, yeah, we wouldn't want to hand a 12 year old keys to the family car and say, you know, good luck, figure it out. And, and it, you know, on some level, phones are a concern in that way because we handle, we, you know, we give them something unrestricted with unrestricted access and the entire Internet, the whole the world is at their disposal, literally. And so we shouldn't feel guilty about boundaries. And I was thinking about this today in, in anticipation of this question. And when our kids started getting phones, you know, we wanted them to have a passcode on their phone because we don't want their friends just grabbing their phone and accessing their phone or doing things with their phone. Or, you know, if if someone stole their phone, we wouldn't want them to be able to access their personal information. But one rule that we had in our house that I always thought was a really great safeguard is that they, we had to know their password and they were not allowed to change it. And we told our kids at any at any given time, we might describe your phone, put your password in, and we might scroll on your phone and we might look to see what you've been looking

06:15Pastor Ken:at. And also don't erase your

06:16Rachel:history they. Couldn't erase their history. That's a big one if. We saw that they erased their history. We would take their phone for a period of time. And so I can't stress enough how important I think having some guardrails. I mean, whether you use those exact ones, that's totally up to you. But I don't think that that parents, or I should say, I think parents feel guilty about putting guardrails up about this because they think that they're invading their kids privacy. And I think really in order to have a phone at whatever age you, you know, you and your child, you know, enter into that situation, there should be an understanding that we're allowing you to have a phone. It's a privilege to have a phone.

07:03Pastor Ken:It's not a right. And sad thing is though, a lot of kids think it is a right exactly because their parents have not put guardrails at the beginning. They should sit down and have a conversation if they're going to give them a cell phone. Yeah.

07:16Rachel:What are the rules? These are the rules and they can be taken from you at any time and I can look at it at any time and I'm only doing this for your. Good to protect. You know, and the Bible is full of, of commands that God gave to the Israelites, gave to us. And really we should put for your good at the end of every command that God ever gave us. You know, when He said thou shalt not steal, it should say thou shalt not steal for your good. It's for your good that you don't steal. It's for your good that you don't murder someone. It's for your good that you don't have adultery. You know that you don't commit adultery. It's not for God's good, it's for our good. And so parents raising kids today, they need to make their kids understand that we're only doing this because we care about you, because we want this to be for your good. You know, we want, we want these guardrails for a purpose and not to control you. I mean, I have better things to do than to control my kids.

08:14Pastor Ken:I did not. Well, we were too busy.

08:16Rachel:We we had a lot going on. We had a busy family.

08:19Pastor Ken:We were. Still really busy.

08:20Rachel:You know, and at times I was dealing with my parents, dealing, helping them with their care. I mean, there's a lot of things, you know, and every family has their things, right? None of us really want to have to be, you know, monitoring what our kids are doing on their phones. But it, it is a job of parents. We have to take this seriously because it can be abused and

08:42Pastor Ken:really harm our children. One thing I liked what we did was at dinner time we we made a we created a technology free space zone. Basically it was no cell phones at dinner time. It was time that we got to talk as a family. How was your day at school? What happened you? Know and those are rich times

09:04Rachel:too, because when you have those in your home, if you can try to have that a few at least a few days a week where you eat together. Those are some of the best times for families to connect and to bond and to share struggles or problems of the day or help each other with solutions or just encouragement. I mean, there's been many times throughout our raising of our kids that I can remember one of our kids, you know, having a problem or being discouraged about something or, or really wanting to talk about something that happened at school. And had it not been for dinner time in that forum of them being able to interact with each other and us, you know, I think they would have missed out on that moment. And so phones would be a huge

09:44Pastor Ken:distraction in a setting. Well, I think another guardrail should be no phones at night in their bedroom for sure. When they go to bed, you charge the phone outside the, you know, child's bedroom, right? Preferably in mom and dad's room, right? That's the safest place, you know, And I'm shocked that some kids really push back on this. You know, you're invading my privacy. You know, they, they like, pull their hair out. They go crazy. And parents have to get a grip on this particular point because too many things can happen at night when they're laying in bed and they get an Instagram instant message and it's somebody that they should be talking to or a picture comes up or something. It's a a fisher, you know, like a hook to to set the kids to get

10:37Rachel:their attention. Well, and it also, you start scrolling, the next thing you know, you're watching YouTube videos and you're watching them for four hours. And now it's 2:00 AM. They have to get up for school

10:45Pastor Ken:at 6 or 6. 30 and then I've heard kids say well don't you trust me Well, no, no, I don't because you're a child and and sometimes adults don't even trust themselves That's why they have safe eyes and, you know, technology on their phones to keep them away from porn and different things like that because the human nature is sinful and evil I mean by.

11:05Rachel:Myself, I put a limit on Instagram because I'll I'll scroll, all right. My scrolling is puppy videos. I get to scrolling. I could scroll for an hour and watch puppy videos and I put a limit on my Instagram 15 minutes a day. And when I've done that for 15 minutes, it pops up and says you've reached your limit for the day. And I'm like, all right, you

11:27Pastor Ken:know, and. I think that's a good idea that we should put timers on our kids phones.

11:31Rachel:I think it's it doesn't hurt. I think that's important. It goes by like that. It does, and then you're like, Oh my gosh, I got so much stuff I need to be doing. I do not need to be sitting here scrolling these puppy videos

11:41Pastor Ken:anyway, everyone has their. Thing, but I think we really need parents need to really hone in on protecting your children's and your kids inside your home. Right.

11:51Rachel:They're innocence. They're predators out there,

11:53Pastor Ken:millions of them through your cell phone. I think another thing that I think parents could do is model what you expect your kids to do. You model it? Yeah. You know, don't have your phone at dinner time. Put it down. Turn it off. Put it on silent mode. Well, I got a business deal. No, you don't. It's dinner time. That deal can wait 1/2 hour. You know, I, I just think that parents need to be consistent and, and what they're asking their children to do that they

12:22Rachel:need to do as well. You mean you can't say do as I say and not as I do, no. OK.

12:27Pastor Ken:No. So don't just teach your kids how to use technology. I think we need to teach them how to live without needing it. Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm not a big individual that that flocks to the social media stuff. I didn't have it as a child, so it's not a big draw on me. I rarely go on Facebook. I do. We do use it. I have people that run social media for me so they'll see posts from Pastor Ken, but I'm not really doing, I'm not doing it at all. I, I heard people to do that for us. So, but I, you know, I know that we have to have it, you know, and it is a tool to spread the gospel. So not all technology is bad. I, I want parents to understand that it's not, it's not evil all the time. You just have to limit and you have to be careful because Satan can use it to bring discomfort to your family. So you could talk a lot more on that, but let's move on. Something I think our kids really need more time is, is they need to understand money. And that was one of the questions that came in from a parent was question number 2 is how do you keep or how do you help your kids understand the value of money? How do you help your children to understand the value of money?

13:47Rachel:And that's a hard one. I mean, for us, it was definitely that we modeled that before then. We talked through things. We weren't afraid to talk about money with our kids. If we felt that something was too expensive, we told them like, we don't think that we should buy that. We think that's too much money. You know, when they got to be a little bit older and they wanted more expensive shoes, we said, hey, you know, we'll pay this much towards your shoes. And if you want nice, if you want more expensive ones, you have to pay the difference. And a lot of times they would be like, oh, you know what, then I actually don't want them. I'll actually get these instead.

14:21Pastor Ken:But I think our world has totally changed because when you and I were kids, we had money. Like physical money today we don't have money like that. Oh, we do, but people don't use it. They swipe they tap, they click, they use their their iPhones or Androids, whatever they have. There's no paper money. They're trying to get rid of it actually now you know, so I think you know you, you order some online through Amazon and it's there in two hours I.

14:49Rachel:Think the money factor is is irrelevant. It's currency teaching kids how to use whatever the currency is, whether you're using Venmo, whether you're using PayPal, what spending, whatever they have. And I I think that makes your job harder though, as a parent.

15:04Pastor Ken:Yeah, because we'll just order it online.

15:06Rachel:Well, where do you think that comes from?

15:08Pastor Ken:We have to pay for that. I think that's what parents are having a a hard time with because they don't understand you have to work, you have to have an income, you have to have choices. Can I afford this or not? And then there's consequences with that. And in this technology driven world today, kids are just clicking on things, ordering something. They get on their mom's Amazon account and bam, it's there and

15:30Rachel:they you sound. Like you're talking from

15:31Pastor Ken:experience. I get on my wife's Amazon account and then all of a sudden it it shows up and I, I don't have a responsibility to pay for it. So this is where I think we have to really hone in on helping parents because Proverbs chapter 14 verse 23 says all hard work brings a profit. And I've talked to business owners. I'm you, as you know, I'm a life coach. I talk to business owners all the time. They have a hard time finding hard workers. People don't want to work today because everything's at your fingertips. And I think that's the connection that parents are having a hard time with. How do you do?

16:11Rachel:How do you deal with? That well give kids opportunities to make money, you know, give them opportunities around the house if you need help with something, you give them the opportunity to make the money helping you do it and then help teach them about spending their money when they're wanting to go spend it. You know, ask them questions like, well, if you buy that, then that's going to take all of your money. You start teaching them when they're really little and then we. Did that with our kids. It kind of gets, it kind of gets more complicated and larger items and larger purchases.

16:37Pastor Ken:From especially Ian, he was the last one, you know, can we, can I get these pairs? Well, how much are they, you

16:43Rachel:know? Yeah, he was always the one who. Wanted $50. Nathan, too, they wanted. Yeah, they wanted the nice shoes and they were.

16:49Pastor Ken:So then we had to come up. Well, we'll pay half if you, but

16:52Rachel:you have to pay half. Yeah, so they had to find things to do to make money. Yep. They had to shovel snow for the neighbor, whatever. But yeah, I think it's a good lesson for them to learn. I don't think it does kids a favor by just buying them everything that they want. We also kind of had a rule in our house. It's not your birthday and it's not Christmas. I probably have said said that over 1000 times. Nope, it's not your birthday and it's not Christmas. You know where I'm at? Meijer getting my groceries. Notice I said Meijer, not Meijer's. It just doesn't have an S on the end. Michiganders were so bad, Midwesterners put an S on everything. I'd be at Meijer with the kids grocery shopping and they want this or that toys or whatever. I'm like, Nope, it's not your birthday and it's not Christmas. So no, I didn't just buy them whatever was out or whatever was the latest thing we would say to them. No, you want that outside of your birthday and Christmas, you're going to have to find a way to earn the money to purchase it. And so I think, you know, teaching them, you really got to start when they're really little and then kind of work that into.

17:50Pastor Ken:Well, I'll pay you back. How are you going to pay me

17:52Rachel:back? Yeah, because that's what the

17:54Pastor Ken:kids would say. You're going to help me if we're at the store? How are you going to pay me back? You don't have a job.

17:58Rachel:Yeah, right. Well, and then some of them did get jobs and they started earning their own money and then we opened up some account for them and help them to manage their money. Well, I, I think there's 3 words

18:09Pastor Ken:that we can teach our children while they're young. And those words would be give you save and you spend, you give, save, spend, You give some, you save some, you enjoy some, right? And I think that's so important. The average American doesn't have $500 in the bank for an emergency. It's really sad. It's very sad. And we just read something on the way over here, Brooke was reading it to us that the new iPhones are launching. They Apple had their big conference or whatever, They're launched today. And yet there will be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who don't have $500.00 for an emergency fund, but they'll go buy $1000 iPhone, put it on credit. Brand new iPhone. $1000 they don't even bat an eye at. It and these are adults. And these are adults, and they

19:08Rachel:don't even bat an eye at it, right?

19:09Pastor Ken:And but yet they don't have 500 for an emergency, right? So we're not teaching our children because those were

19:18Rachel:kids. They were kids once.

19:20Pastor Ken:And they don't know the principle, right? They can't say no to themselves. I think that is so important, big lessons to teach our children that we have to say no

19:30Rachel:to ourselves. Yeah, I was talking to somebody about that. They had just bought a dog. They just got a new dog and and I said, you know, whenever I'm a sucker for dogs, I just am. I'm a dog lover. I mean, that's going to be my job in heaven. I'm being in charge of all the dogs. So I believe all dogs go to heaven, just FYI. And they were saying how they bought a dog, they got a new dog and you know, tell me about it. And they were like, you know, I just get so suckered into these dogs. Like I shouldn't even go to the pet store because I, I know I'm going to walk away with a dog. And I'm like, you know what my new rule about any big purchases are our new rule really not mine. But when you really want something that you think about it for at least a week, if something suddenly like comes to you about, you know, that you're going to want to spend money on that. It might be a larger purchase. That you have to talk about it, pray about it, think about it for at least a week before you do it, buy it because there's a lot of time there to talk yourself out of it. There's a lot of time to talk each other out of it, to rationalize, to be like, you know, this isn't a really good time in our life. We shouldn't be getting another dog right now because we're busy. We're this, we're getting ready to take a big trip or whatever the case may be. But it when you give yourself time, so teaching, you can teach that to children. You can, you know, I know you really want that backpack, but let's give it a week and see if it goes on sale. You can always find it in a week from now, but maybe you'll also find it on sale somewhere. And when they're, when they're being raised with that awareness of wow, the backpack is now on sale for 38 bucks when it was 5999. Now look, you've got, you know, $21.00 that you can use towards something else that you need for

21:07Pastor Ken:school. Or bank it, you just saved 21

21:10Rachel:bucks. Right. You just saved $21.00. And so teaching them that value of wow, that was really good that we waited because now we have money that I can spend towards what this other thing that I actually need. Yeah. And so teaching them the difference between needs and wants, teaching them about waiting, watching for sales, I mean, that is really a parent's job. I really think that we could do a better job of that. Oh, for sure. You know, society is telling us

21:33Pastor Ken:it is that. We're failing in this, you know, we, we give in to our lust too easily. So the final thought on this is I I don't don't just give your children whatever they want, right?

21:48Rachel:We try to say, oh, I want them to have what I never had. Yeah, if you never had it and you're OK, they're going to be fine. Teach them.

21:55Pastor Ken:Teach them, I think, what to look, what, what to look for and when to get it right. Just like you were saying, the value of a dollar is so, so important. So another question #3 that came in was what are the best ways to keep teens involved in church? Now, when I read this, I thought that was so good. That's a great question because that's what our job is as pastors are to keep our children involved in church. And I want to start with this. Don't just bring your teenager to church to help your teenager belong to church. And there's a difference. And I want to explain that before we get into this. A teenager can sit in church every Sunday and still really never feel apart, like it's their church. And we've always had the philosophy at CrossPoint that we want to start our kids young in ministry, whatever facet of ministry that is. So, so we try to build relationships for kids and our own children. So you know, besides mom and dad, you know, you sit with a youth leader, become friends with the youth pastor you, you know, coaches, small group leaders, whatever it is in the back in the media sound booth you. Bring them to the activities. You bring them to the activities

23:31Rachel:of church. So they can build their own tribes so they can connect with other.

23:35Pastor Ken:Because they need to feel needed, right, Right. And so we've always told Bethany. Bethany was have been our worship leader for a long time. But I started her at 16 and giving her responsibilities and helping me lead worship. You know, when we planted the church, I mean, you know, I was basically everything, you know, as a church planner, you do everything. And then I'm like, I got to get my kids involved. But it really taught her responsibility and it gave her ownership and she became, took the lead, I think at 18 or something like that, very young. She's done a phenomenal job and

24:14Rachel:it taught her to. You're not biased at all.

24:15Pastor Ken:Though no, but and it and it taught her to get younger people involved in our youth to be on the worship team, right, which a lot of churches say, well, you can't do that.

24:25Rachel:Until she's doing that even still, I mean, she was just telling me about a young girl that she's wanting to start working with to get her on the worship team because she sees the talent in her and she has a beautiful heart. She's able to harmonize. That's one thing about our worship team that that they are very picky about. You do have to know how to harmonize. You can't just be, you can't just sing right. You got to you got to be part of a band, right? And so she knows of a young girl that has a great voice for harmonizing. And it's very rare that a young talent can come up, can rise up that young. And so she wants to take, you know, to snatch that up and and help incorporate her. And so that's important, making kids, you know, find a place in the church. Make them feel responsible. I think too, you know, mentoring them, you know, doing devotions together, praying with your kids, praying at dinner, praying with them over a situation. You know, when your kids come home and they're really tore up about something that happened at school or with a friend or they're frustrated, you know, it's a great time to say, you know what, let's just pray about this. Let's pray about this right now. And then I'm going to continue to pray for you. And I want you to continue to pray about this and see if the Holy Spirit won't speak to your heart about this and help you and settle you down or give you peace. So what you're saying is make

25:38Pastor Ken:faith real at home? Exactly. Yeah, just not a church thing. Because then they understand

25:43Rachel:that there's more to this. We don't just go to a place to hear someone preach a message, right? Faith is our part of our everyday life and we, we can't

25:52Pastor Ken:live without it, right? Like it.

25:54Rachel:Instead of it becoming something we choose, it's something that we can't, we don't, that we can't live without. Like we have to choose it because it it's everything that

26:03Pastor Ken:we are. It should be a part of us every day. Yeah. And how do we get our kids to see that? Well, they need to see mom and Dad. Pray they see it demonstrated. Demonstrated at at your home. They need to see dad say I'm sorry when he was wrong to see the parents. Be generous, you know, with their money and with their time and their talents. You know, to serve the Lord with whatever they have. Or be a good steward. Being a good steward of what they've been given. I think this is where Christianity becomes real. You know, I think we have a separation in society where we just do church, like Sunday. We just go to church and then we go on with our life. We've never done that. We've never lived like that. It's who we are. It's in our DNA. We, we are the church. We're, this is just a building that we meet in, right? But the church is the people. And we've always lived that way and taught our children that we are the church every day. We just don't turn it on on Sundays, Don't do church. We don't do church. We are the church. And I think there's a big disconnect with parents today and their kids that they just do church. Check the box. Yeah, we did it. OK, now let's go on. We got the Lions game this weekend. We got this, we got that. You know, we're so busy and yet we put God on the shelf like Elf on the Shelf, We put God on the shelf. Then Sunday comes around, oh, we put God back, you know, in the house again. And it's got to be part of every day, every decision, everything that we say and do has to be centered around church, around serving Christ, not the church 'cause we are the church. It's got to be around the Lord, right? And I think we talked about this last week a little bit was don't panic when your kids ask deep theological questions. They're trying to figure out their own faith, right? And don't, don't get upset about that. Listen to them, talk with them, do research with them.

28:09Rachel:Yeah, you say try what? Good question. Let's let's work on this. Yeah, let's. Let's come up with us with a good.

28:15Pastor Ken:Let's do it together. Good answer for this, Yeah, yeah. I think because sometimes questioning isn't a teenager walking away from their faith, it's growing their faith. And I think we can't be as scared, you know, afraid of that. You know, we need to be parents of faith. We need to be parents that say, you know what, let's study that

28:33Rachel:together well. I think people think that they expect that from us because we're in the ministry and I'm. You're the pastor and I'm the pastor's wife. And of course they're going to be like that with their kids. But, you know, your sister and brother-in-law were that way

28:45Pastor Ken:with their kids. Yeah.

28:46Rachel:And your mom and dad were like that with you and your siblings. I mean, it's not just pastor families. No, it's that's how we were raised. It's. Just Christian families, this is how we operate. We want to incorporate Jesus into our everyday life because we want to train our kids up in the way that they should go. And the Bible says that when they're older, they won't depart from it. But if they're not trained up, they we can't bank on that promise. We just can't. So true. And so it's one of the most comforting promises that you'll ever have as a parent when

29:17Pastor Ken:you're raising kids. Yeah, so. Well, the goal isn't, I believe, to raise children who know how to go to church, right? That's not the goal, right? This is what we do right now. It's to raise children who know how to walk with Jesus. Yeah, that's the goal. Not just to go to church, yeah, but to be the church.

29:42Rachel:There's a huge difference, right?

29:44Pastor Ken:And I, I really believe there is a disconnect. It doesn't have to be that way if you'll just bring Jesus in every form of your life every day, bring the Lord into it in, in, in tough conversations and different things that are going on in our world. You know, bring Christ into it, that the Bible has everything that we need in life.

30:13Rachel:For life and. Godliness for life and

30:15Pastor Ken:godliness. We have everything we need. It's so powerful. So, so parents, you can do it, you know, just don't compartmentalize. That's that's the big one for us.

30:26Rachel:Don't. Turn on and turn off your faith

30:29Pastor Ken:when it's convenient. No, you have to live it on 24/7. Leave it on. Don't let don't hide the light, that's right. Let it shine in Jesus name. All right, so how do number question #4 is this is a big one. I'm going to probably let you handle this one. How how do we teach kids to dress respectfully for all occasions? How do we do that now? You and I, you know, were in our I'm turning 58. Can't believe that. And I don't mention your age. Yeah, you're younger than me.

31:05Rachel:So. He he likes to tease me on my birthday that I'm getting old. Yeah, you are. But I'm always younger than him, so it really, when he tells me I'm getting old, he's saying that about himself. Yeah. So anyways, back to how do we

31:17Pastor Ken:teach kids to dress? For today's how, let's see how can I say this? I think we need to embrace modesty. It seems like when you and I grew up and we were in high school, we had the big hair. We were 80s, you know, we graduated in the 80s. So we had big hair, parachute pants, oversized sweatshirts,

31:39Rachel:you know, T-shirts. We were on the comfy generation.

31:42Pastor Ken:We were on the comfy generation, so we didn't have tight, clingy clothes, right? Today the dress is the tighter the better. And. Less is and less is best and it and Oh my God, it doesn't leave any room for imagination. You know, a lot of these kids are just putting it out there and it is a problem and I I think we need a balance. So how do we determine before

32:10Rachel:someone goes out of the house? Well, the the IT. It really does it. Really has to start with younger, with younger kids. I see little girls with little two piece little outfits, their bellies showing little tiny tops and and I'm thinking that's all cute now when they're little, but when they get older, what are you going to say when your teenager wants to go out of the house like that, you know? Yeah, what do you say? Yeah, you just, you really do. The more you can start with kids in any area of of these subjects, the earlier you can start the the the better you're going to have it when they're. Teenagers.

32:45Pastor Ken:Well, I think kids think, and people just in general, not just kids, I've always thought I want to present myself

32:52Rachel:professionally. Yeah.

32:55Pastor Ken:Now that doesn't mean that you, you know, have to dress up all the time, but you have to, you know, where appropriate things.

33:02Rachel:Well, that's a good for the occasion. The appropriate for the occasion and I think you teach your kids that as you grow like when where are you going? You're going as a family, you're going out to dinner. Are we going to a fancy place? Are we going to a like?

33:12Pastor Ken:Some parents don't even know how to dress appropriate, so how are you going to teach your kid that?

33:16Rachel:Well that's we can't answer that if the parents don't know how for their own self. I'm not here to to parent them.

33:21Pastor Ken:They had their chance. Well, that's one of the

33:23Rachel:questions that came. Out how to parent your kids about what to wear. I think teaching, especially teaching your girls, I do find that it's more serious with girls than boys. I mean, let's be honest, we can all probably just call the kettle out here that how do we teach girls to dress more modestly? I think a good thing to say to your girls. And and really, when it's not an issue, I always clarify that because when something's an issue and you bring it up to your kid, you're going to have a battle big time. So when you see your daughter coming in the house and she's got, you know, something that you feel is inappropriate, maybe too low cut of a shirt, let's just say you don't just lambast her when she comes in the door. She's coming in the door. She's probably got things she wants to tell you. How was your day?

34:05Pastor Ken:Well, what if she's coming down the stairs? You catch her, she's going to OK.

34:10Rachel:Well, let's do 2 scenarios. She comes in the door after she's already been out and you just now are seeing her. You don't just lambast her right when she comes in the door. You let her get, you know, in the house and get situated and then you maybe pull her aside and say hey, you know, we need to, we need to talk. Like I noticed your outfit, I noticed your shirt was really low cut. What? What type of person are you trying to attract? I think it's a good question to ask our daughters. What kind of person are you trying to attract? What kind of guy would you want looking at you that way? If you're trying to show off what you have, those are not the kind of guys that you are going to want, right? If that's what they're going to be attracted to you for, probably not going to be your type of guy, probably not going to be the kind of guy that you're going to want him to create a future with, you know? So I think you have to take these opportunities, but never lambasting your children, always lovingly pulling them aside, guiding them. Her job is to guide them, not to just Lord over them. And I think that has been a

35:11Pastor Ken:problem with. A lot of OK, So what if they buck you on that, Say I don't see mom, that there's anything wrong with a little cleavage. What do you say?

35:19Rachel:Well, I would just keep pointing back to maybe ask them why they think it's OK Be Socratic about it. Ask them why they think, oh, that's a good word. Why do they want to show off what they have? Right. Why do you want to wear? I mean, I'm not saying we have to wear turtlenecks. I mean, come on. We were we were raised up in the church in that day, right. You know, where you have to wear. You know, if I even with this, I should have a tank top on underneath.

35:43Pastor Ken:It comes up to here because, yeah, you know.

35:45Rachel:No, we're not saying. That I think that we have to, we have to point it out to them when it pushes the envelope too far. As their parents, we have a right to question them about their motive for wanting to dress that way. I would try to keep it focused on that. Why do you want to wear that?

36:04Pastor Ken:So you're saying teach dignity? Yeah, teach.

36:06Rachel:I have a little bit of. Dignity to have self respect. Like do you understand that? Brooke was just telling me she had a pair of pants on when Nathan was still living at home. It was kind of towards the end of Nathan living at home, Brooke came out with a pair of like cream color jeans. She had like these cream colored jeans and they were fit, very fitted. They weren't skin tight. They weren't offensive or anything, but they were, they were fitted, you know, And Nathan, her older brother. So he was a senior, she was. A He was probably a senior at the time or he might have been one year out of high school and she was still in high school because he's two years ahead of her. But he said to her, Brooke, look, you're not wearing that. I know what guys are. Do I know what they look like? Look at. And you're not wearing those out of the house. Go change. And they had like a little argument between them. She was like, oh, you're being ridiculous. And he was like, no, I'm not. I know what my friends do. I know how guys think. And you're not wearing those pants out of the house. Go change. And he this is her brother telling her. She just told me the story yesterday and I was cracking up because I didn't know about it. But I mean, I know the boys are very protective of the girls. It's just a thing in our house. But I was cracking up that her brother would tell her to go change, you know, and she changed, you know, because Nathan would say to her or any of our daughters, like, I know how guys think and I don't want them thinking that about you. I love you and I care about you and I don't want guys thinking about you like that.

37:36Pastor Ken:So I get what you're saying. So we need to teach the principal behind the rule because there has to be rules, right? And so eventually you're going to have to tell them why. Yeah, why is. And I think the inside question should be that we should ask our children is, is this appropriate dress?

37:57Rachel:Right. Is it appropriate?

37:58Pastor Ken:When you walk down the hall, our guys are going to be gawking at you. Is that what you want?

38:03Rachel:You want guys to be attracted to you for your intelligence and your your smarts, your your, your personality, your sense of humor? Or do you want them to be attracted to you because of your body?

38:14Pastor Ken:Right. Like a sexual object.

38:16Rachel:Really, right? You know, try to get them to understand. Well, and I think on the

38:20Pastor Ken:spiritual side, we have, you know, on the flip side of that, who am I representing? You know, does Christ want me to dress this way? Yeah, you know.

38:29Rachel:That's why a relationship with with Christ is always central to everything that we do as parents. Because. Christ has to be the center of every. You can foster a a healthy relationship with Jesus in your kids lives. They're going to make these decisions in light of of Him and a lot of these problems will honestly take care of themselves. Right.

38:49Pastor Ken:I think a, a question is, does this honor God? Does this conduct? Does this language does does my dress honor God? And is this fit for where I'm going? You know, I think that's a big thing. You know, we live in a society where modesty is out the window. It's like you're old, you know, you're old if you think that. And IA modesty is not about being ashamed of your own body. That's not what it is. It's about understanding the value, I believe of your body. And so I think that's so important to teach our girls that we, you know, we have 3 girls and I was very protective of them and we made a rule, you and I, that no dating until you're 18 because nothing good comes of it. Now parents think, oh, that's ridiculous 18 but you know what, that that's what our rule was. And well.

39:43Rachel:And if you ask now that our kids are all grown, Ian's the youngest, he's 20, and they go up to 32. If you were to ask our five kids, do they wish now, looking back, that that rule was different, they would all tell you no. We're doing the same thing with

39:56Pastor Ken:our kids when we have them. Because they know the pressure that is on them when they're dating, when they're young.

40:02Rachel:Yeah, they're all thankful. They're all that rule, they're all soul and. Kids need boundaries.

40:08Pastor Ken:They really want them. They, I know parents are thinking if they're listening to this, they're going to say, you know, our parents or our kids fight us all the time on things like this. But they really do want boundaries. And I was, I was firm. No, no boys. Yes, they could go to prom. Yes, they could do the dances, but not as a boyfriend. You just go as friends. Well, there's no boyfriends.

40:31Rachel:And they are like, OK, that whatever. Yeah, they thought about, but they they really. Did honor? That and they didn't have like any serious relationships. They hung out in groups, right? They went to the movies in a group. They went to friends and did things as a group of kids they didn't do. They didn't pair off right until they were 18. I remember Caleb came and asked you when Bethany turned 18 if you could actually date her. She's 18. Can I actually date her now?

40:55Pastor Ken:And you were? Like I said, yes you can. You know. But I just think it's it's our job and I want to talk to the dads. It's our dad. It's your job to be the monitor in the home. You are the safeguard, you are the high priest, whatever you want to call it. You're the guard of your home. You, your most precious possessions, are your children, boys and girls. And so it's important that we do our very best to protect them. And we've had some arguments when we said we put our foot down, no, you're not going to that party. No, you're not doing it. Nope, You're you're going to be home at 10 o'clock 10:00 is the time because we knew if we didn't do that, we're going to have problems.

41:40Rachel:Well, we weren't our kids friends.

41:42Pastor Ken:No, we were their parents, right? And a lot some parents ask us that. What's the fine line? I'm your parent. I'm your parent. 1st, I'll always be your parent. They'll become, there will come a time when you're adults that we can be friends, but I'm still your dad, right? And you're still going to call me for wisdom because that's what my job is. And they're going to still call you for understanding and prayer and love and support and so.

42:06Rachel:But we didn't try to buddy up to.

42:07Pastor Ken:Our kids, we did not. And I think that's the problem with a lot of parents that this is the struggle that they've become their friends and they've and now they're like, I've given too much to my kids. How do I get it back? And it and I understand it's hard.

42:20Rachel:You have to you just say. You have to get it back. We're talking, we're talking new rules in the house. We. Made mistakes and I have realized that this way that we're going. Is. Not working. And so this is what the new game in town is going to be.

42:33Pastor Ken:And I think the father should steward the meeting, he should lead it, and he should call a family, you know, and repent. I'm going to repent before you. I'm sorry that I've given you too much rope to hang yourself. I don't like the way our family's going here. We're going to start going to

42:49Rachel:church. We're going to be the church.

42:50Pastor Ken:And we're setting new boundaries. And I know it's going to be difficult for you, but this is what we're going to do from here on out. Yep. And there is no negotiating.

42:57Rachel:No. Negotiating.

42:58Pastor Ken:We care about you. And we, and we love. You and we want you to be. An assets to society and not a debt. And I think that's so important. So if you need to apologize, then you apologize. It's called tough love. You only get one. Chance you can. Always draw a line in the sand.

43:12Rachel:And start over always in your marriage, if I can tell parents. Tonight exactly. You get one chance.

43:19Pastor Ken:You don't get a do over with your kids.

43:21Rachel:You do not. I remember there was a. Time where, Nathan? Was struggle. We found out that Nathan was struggling and he was going down a bad path and I was working heavily. At that time I was, I, I didn't have the staff that I have now to help me. And so I was working every night of the week. I was working every day except Sunday. And so much so that I was like almost in tears from working so much. And I remember saying to Nathan like, I'll I'll give it all up. We will sell our house. We will move to a smaller house. I will stay home. I will micromanage every single area of your life if I have to, if me working is causing this, I'll be the first one to quit my job. And we will go back to square 1. And like, he knew that I meant what I was saying. And he was like, mom, you don't have to do all of that. It's going to be OK. Like he started to shape up, you know, shape up. But. You. Know I wasn't willing to sacrifice my kids for my career right. I just wasn't willing. They are all they've always been first and and and we we lived it. You know well you have to start over sometimes and say you know our. Foundational Scripture for our marriage and our family and this

44:31Pastor Ken:church is Matthew 6:33. You seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you. And when that got out of kilter, we threatened our kids. Listen, we'll, we'll what you like this house. Well, we'll get rid of it because we're not going to have, we don't need any of this. We don't need any. It's all perishable, right?

44:50Rachel:This is this all doesn't. Matter doesn't matter. It does make our life easier we're able to entertain people. You guys are Kendra was able to run a business out of our house. It doesn't matter. I mean, it was it was very functional, but it was not the main thing, right? They were and and sometimes you have to just say, hey, what do we got to do here because we can only spread ourselves so thin.

45:09Pastor Ken:Well, so that you. Know so I just got off a little bit we did but I we have to hammer it with these as parents you have to get a backbone you got to get a spine and you can't be a friend I'm sorry you just start over and you can start over if you take anything away from.

45:25Rachel:That point, it's that you can start over. If you've given too much authority away, you can lovingly get it back with an apology and setting new ground rules. Kids want to be LED. They do. They want to be LED. And which brings us to our final

45:42Pastor Ken:question. We talked about the phones, we talked about money, we talked about church, we talked about clothing. And then we had this one come in and I was like, oh, that's a good one. Question #5 is what do you do if you don't agree with the person your child is dating yeah so this is our friend that we.

46:03Rachel:Work out with Yeah, sorry we made you wait till the end, Diana, but good question here. And we, we talked to her a little bit about it today. You this one's a this one's a tough one, very tough. First thing is we didn't have to deal with this too much because of our rule of not dating till you're 18, right? So that kind of took care of a lot of this for us. I mean, to be fair, we didn't

46:26Pastor Ken:have a problem with this. We.

46:27Rachel:Didn't because. Now, there was a time where Ian was dating somebody, and we kind of like, let it go on a little bit. And then we sat down with him and we started asking him questions, you know? Well, do you agree with this and do you believe this way? And what do you think about this? And it kind of got him thinking. We didn't say, you know, we don't like her because we didn't dislike her. We just didn't feel that. She was a good match. For him, like, I want great for anybody that's dated our kids, like I want their lives to be great many times. It's just that they're not a good match for our for our kids, you know, and so we, we started asking Ian some questions and he started thinking and the next thing we knew they, they broke up. And, and so I think questioning is probably the best thing that you can do as a parent. Start with that question. You know, the things that you're seeing. Point things out to them lovingly. Don't be critical of their, of their person, because if you're too critical of their person, they're going to turn against you. You know, you have to just say, hey, I noticed this and yeah, make a list of good. Yeah, I I think you should make

47:36Pastor Ken:a list, you know, watch their relationship when they're over, when they're together. And is that individual manipulative, controlling, dishonest? Didn't you? Didn't you think?

47:50Rachel:That when our kids were with the right person, you noticed that it kind of brought out the best version of them. Like our kids were the most like natural. When they were with the right person, you could just tell like, they're not acting right. They're not, You know, Nathan was with a girl for a little bit of time, and he just wasn't himself. Right. You know, it was nothing wrong with the girl. She was lovely. But Nathan wasn't Nathan. He wasn't funny. He wasn't his normal self. He was more moody. And we. Yeah. So does that person make you a? Better person do they compliment you do. They make you a better person. And I think as a parent, no one's going to know that better than you, correct? You know? You know your kid, you just know your kid like muscle memory, you know them. And so when you see your child not acting like their best version of themselves, you can question them about it. I noticed when you're with her, you're not funny, you're not silly. You kind of are like Mr. Serious and nobody wants to be around you. Like, what's going on with that? Do you like the way that you are with her? Do you like acting like that? How does that make you feel? You know, and then they start looking at themselves and thinking, huh, you're kind of, you're right. Like I didn't even notice because they don't notice because what love is blind. Love is blind. It's blind for them, you know, or they think they're in love, but they're really not. And so they're just like caught up in the emotion of it. So they're very emotional, I think. Start with that. Questioning them about it, letting them know what you're seeing, but not not in a critical way. And then if they are still pressing about, no mom, I just don't agree with you or Oh no dad, you don't know what you're talking about, then you just have to pray for them and you just have to make it a matter of prayer and keep your mouth shut at that point. And then I'm telling you, you can accomplish stuff through prayer that nothing else can accomplish. It's true. Nothing.

49:52Pastor Ken:It's. Amazing.

49:53Rachel:And so then make it a matter of prayer. And obviously, if you think your child is in in a harmful situation that you might have to do like a family intervention, right? For sure where you get the whole. Family and say. We're having a family meeting because we all want to talk to you about this. Exactly.

50:08Pastor Ken:And you. You.

50:09Rachel:Might have to. Get get to that point, but I would say call in people that you trust. Ask your child if they'll meet with somebody that they respect and love. Maybe they're close to a grandparent. Say I want you to talk to your grandma about this. I've said all I'm going to say now, I want you to talk to her. You know, we could have Nathan talk to Grandma Ken's mom. If we if Nathan, if we couldn't get Nathan on board with something, we would sick grandma on her on him. And she could always get through to him. There was something about her she could control Nathan like he was a remote control car. I mean, she just knew she had the key to his heart. She just did. She was like one of the only ones that could deal with him when he was little. And then when he became an adult, she could speak into his life. She had permission. She did and and it worked. And so, you know, there's well,

51:00Pastor Ken:I think that's a good. Point is that you have permission to speak into your children's lives. I think if we live a life that our kids will honor and respect our choices that we make, they'll want you to speak into their life, right? And I think that's huge. I think we have to live a life that is respectful, you know,

51:21Rachel:and. So.

51:22Pastor Ken:If you do that, I think your kids are going to live more apt to listen to you than not, and they're going to want your

51:27Rachel:opinion on. I think so on important. Matters like this like. That what do you think you know, you've been around her for a little bit now you've what is what are your thoughts? And then Ian, Ian and I had some

51:38Pastor Ken:great. Talks about the girl that he was seeing and the bottom line was she doesn't believe like we believe. That's really what it boils down to. And he really saw it. You know, she loved God, but there wasn't the same connection spiritually speaking, the same beliefs systems that we believe and so well, and she wanted to change him and she.

52:02Rachel:Wanted to change him and that was a red.

52:04Pastor Ken:Flag we're like, you know, son, you know the truth, you know what the Bible says, and yet she's trying to change you to believe in her system that we don't believe is true. There's a problem and he began to see that and he's like, you're right, you're right. I'm going to talk to her. So it was all about talking, having, taking time to talk and spend time and just having a lot of time, just having, loving. Honest conversations and Yep. Love them and and cry with them and pray with them and, and once they see your heart that you're not judging them, but you want the very best for them, I think they'll change. I think in closing on that.

52:49Rachel:Question I think 1 I heard something recently Brooke was sharing it with me last year she had read it somewhere I was reading this book and it said don't let your girlfriend keep you from your wife, don't let your. Boyfriend. Keep you from your husband and

53:05Pastor Ken:when you think. About that like I.

53:06Rachel:Could be just dating this person, this person could just be a placeholder like this. This might not be the best for me because I could be missing out on what God really has for me. And I think sometimes we have to challenge our kids with those kind of questions. Yeah. And when you put it lovingly to them in that perspective, then they're they start thinking differently about these relationships. Yeah, it's true. It's true.

53:29Pastor Ken:Well, I think we did a pretty good job tonight. Hey, these were some hot topics. And that's all the time we have today on Real Talk with PK, friends. I want to thank you for tuning in and please continue to send parenting questions to us. We really enjoy doing this podcast. We're going to do it all month, so we got lots more coming your way throughout the whole month of September. So parents, remember, you don't have to parent perfectly. You need to parent faithfully. So with that, stay involved, stay consistent, keep listening, keep praying, keep pointing your children towards Jesus. That is the goal. Because we're not simply trying to raise good kids. We're trying to raise wise adults who know God and know who they are and how they can make godly decisions when mom and dad aren't around standing beside them telling them what to do. That's not our job. Come on. So until next time, keep, keep the faith, keep moving forward and keep it real. God bless you and we'll see you next time on Real Talk with PK.