Parenting through the teen years

00:09Pastor Ken:Welcome back to Real Talk with PK, where we talk about real life, real struggles, and how our faith meets us right in the middle of it. Today we're going to kick off this month and we're going to talk about something that I think many of us discover that there is no instructional manual for parenting teenagers. Yes, it's back to school month, friends. September kicks off where all our little ones go back to school. And when your children are little, parenting can seem pretty straightforward. You know, don't touch that. Put that down. It's bedtime, eat your vegetables. And then one day you wake up and they become teenagers. Suddenly the child who once asked you 1,000 questions has 1,000 answers for you.

00:58Pastor Ken:The child who used to tell you everything may suddenly answer with well, fine, nothing I don't know. And parenting begins to change. Here's something I want parents to hear today in this podcast. Parenting teenagers isn't about controlling every decision that they make. It's about preparing them to make decisions when you're no longer standing beside them, that changes the goal. And when they're little, you manage much of their world.

01:34Pastor Ken:And as they grow, we begin to coach them through their world. Eventually you have to release them into their world. And that transition, well, it's not always easy. Proverbs chapter 22, verse 6 says train up a child in the way that he should go. Now I want you to notice something with me. Notice the word train. Training means I'm preparing you for something. So today we're going to answer some real questions that came directly from people in our church about raising teenagers.

02:10Pastor Ken:We're talking about stress. We're talking about faith, struggles, independence, mistakes, rules, arguments. All underneath all these questions is really one big question. How do I hold onto my relationship with my child while still being their parent? Let's talk about it. OK, so I want to welcome into our studio my wife and best friend, Rachel.

02:57Pastor Ken:What do you think of the new look? I love the. Studio, it looks great.

03:00Rachel:I haven't been down here for a while so.

03:02Pastor Ken:Been a minute since you've been back.

03:04Rachel:It has, so it looks really, really nice. You guys did a great job. I'm proud of you.

03:08Pastor Ken:Yeah, it looks. Really.

03:09Rachel:Nice and no women's, no womenly touches on it. You guys kind of man this by yourself, no pun intended, and

03:17Pastor Ken:looks great. Yeah, love it. Yeah, so I'm glad that you and I are together for this month. And we're answering a lot of questions that parents have in our church. And we've had a huge influx here lately at CrossPoint with a lot of young families. And a lot of parents have been coming up to me after service and saying, you know, could you do some curriculum? Can you and your wife put some curriculum together for us? We're having a baby, you know, and like six months and we, we just don't know what to do. You know, they're excited, but they don't know what to do. So I thought, you know, we would do a whole month on our podcast about parenting since it's very relevant subject for us to go through and we've been there.

04:08Rachel:I like that you had people, you know, submit questions, which is cool, so hopefully we'll be able to answer those.

04:13Pastor Ken:Yeah, friends, these are actual questions from our congregation,

04:18Rachel:so. Yeah, we were at, we were working out today with our trainer and we told one of the other trainers that we were doing this podcast today. And she goes, I have a question. And we're like, OK, what is it? And she asked us her question. And so we submitted it so we would be able to answer it in the coming weeks. So we told her she's got to tune in to hear the answer to her question. But yeah, I think this is a

04:37Pastor Ken:great format for that. Yeah, I do too. I I really do. And hopefully that tonight we'll start helping parents answer questions that they have and really help them parent their children better. So that's really what we want. So, so let's let's get into this question number one that came in. It's parenting teenagers can be stressful. What is the best way to maintain calm and work through the teenage years? What do you think about that

05:09Rachel:question? Well, you have to be, you have to be real with your kids. And I think, you know, a lot of what you do early on sets the foundation for when they're teenagers, you know, that open communication. So it can be stressful. And, you know, in our case, we had our three daughters were much easier than our two boys. We had some challenges, you know, in the high school years with our two boys. But everything in the end with them did turn out OK. But I remember during those times with our two boys, I remember thinking, wow, there needs to be a support group for parents who are going through this because you really do feel like it's a crisis when your kids, you know, when you feel like your kids are straying off the straight and narrow, so to speak, and.

06:00Pastor Ken:Well, give the audience, tell them the ages of our of our kids. So they, all our kids are, I'm

06:06Rachel:going to round, I'm going to round them all up because they're all ready to. They're all getting ready to turn. OK. So our oldest is 32, Kendra, and then Bethany's turning 30, Nathan's turning 28, Brooke's turning 26, and Ian just turned 20, Correct? So they're all turning even this year, which makes it nice easy. So we had a surprise. So Ian's quite a bit younger, but they're all adults now, right? So we're in a different phase of life. But it wasn't long ago that we were dealing with teenagers, so I totally understand.

06:37Pastor Ken:And they were all young together, so we didn't have them spaced out. So we're going through what a lot of parents are going through right now. We we've been there. Done.

06:46Rachel:That we've had four teenagers in our house at one time, you know, so it's it's a real thing. So, you know, you have to control the atmosphere in your home and that's at any stage of parenting, but especially in the teen years, you can't let their emotion determine your emotion because teenagers can can go from zero to ninety very fast. And so James 1:19 gives parents a really tremendous wisdom. It says everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. And sometimes the most powerful thing that a parent can do is to say, we're both frustrated right now.

07:25Rachel:We're going to come back to this conversation when we're calmer. And you and I have always had a rule and I've we've mentioned it on podcasts before whenever like talking about relationships. But our rule is always to bring up the issue when it's not an issue, correct? And it's important really in any relationship like say your your child, your teenager is really made you upset. Let's say that you have them on Life360 and you saw that they were driving too fast. You know, when they come in the door, you're not going to lambast blast them. I was just watching you on life 360 and you were going, you know, 10 miles over the speed limit. You're not going to lambast them when they come in the door. That's just not a good way to handle dis, you know, disagreements or disappointments. You'll, you know, greet them when they come in. How was your day?

08:13Rachel:How are you doing? And then maybe let them kind of, you know, go to the bathroom, maybe change their clothes, wash their hands, do whatever they got to do. And then when they come back into the kitchen, you say, hey, I need to talk to you about something. I happened to check on your status, you know, to see how close you were to being home, you know, see if you're going to be home in time for dinner, whatever. And I noticed like you were going really, really fast. And I just want you to be aware of that. Like that is not safe driving and I want you to be more

08:40Pastor Ken:careful so you're. And I wish we learned that because when they're first starting driving, we weren't, we weren't calm, You know, we, we engaged right away. These are things that you and I learned.

08:53Rachel:We got better. With we got better with each one and I do wish that we would have known a lot of these things. You know, with the first one, Kendra turned out OK, but she was our test. She was our test. She was our test baby. Yes, she really was your first. Your first child is definitely you.

09:08Pastor Ken:You're learning. I want to tell people that's not because you wait for the opportunity to calm yourself down. That's not weakness.

09:16Rachel:I think that's leadership. It is.

09:18Pastor Ken:And and don't take everything personally, right? Right. Because they might not agree with you. I don't think it's a big deal. You know, you don't understand me. You know, doesn't necessarily mean that you failed as a parent when your child says that, right? I think part of adolescence is separating, questioning, testing, developing their identity. That's going to happen in parenting. And you can give them space. And we had to learn this the hard way without surrendering our authority to our kids. And so there's a phrase that I like, I've used it in in sermons that I've preached. We need to be the thermostat, not the thermometer. And what I mean by that is the thermometer simply reflects the temperature of the room, right?

10:07Pastor Ken:The thermostat sets it right. And so your teenager may bring chaos into your home and, and a lot of them do, right. They may bring that chaos into that room, but you don't have to join in that chaos. And I think that's so important that we tell parents that, you know, you are the head, you're the parent, you have to take control of the situation. And, and how you take control is you get a hold of yourself 1st. And I didn't do that all the time. I wasn't very good at that in the early stages of parenting

10:45Rachel:and I had to learn the hard way. Well, and we learned the hard way too, you know, that you don't get a do over with parenting. No, you do not. And that's why I think that this these types of forums are so important. Yes, you know, and I do remember we did listen to a lot of things when we were younger. Mostly we read a lot of books because they didn't have podcasts and, you know, they didn't have things like that

11:03Pastor Ken:that we could listen to there. Was no social.

11:05Rachel:Media. We read every book we could get our hands on on parenting because we did want to be the best parent. We parented with intent, with intentional, you know, actions. And so I like to think that we were very intentional in our parenting, but we still got it wrong sometimes. It is it. There's no perfect formula, but through, you know, this format, hopefully we can offer at least a little bit of hope for parents because the teenage years, it can be really tough. It can be very, very tough. Right and so setting that's a good point about the thermostat. You know you are the thermostat and I think you do set the temperature for your home and if you're yelling, they're going to yell.

11:41Rachel:If the parents don't see you getting along, you and your spouse, then they were going to think that that's just the way life is. You know, if they don't see

11:49Pastor Ken:people, I. Think that's why a lot of young people today don't want to get married because they grew up in an environment that wasn't healthy, right? So then they put off getting married in their 20s.

11:59Rachel:Or they don't know how to say sorry because they never heard their parents say sorry to each other. And I just think, you know, you do set the tone for your home and I think it really does emulate to your kids and they pick up on that. They literally are always

12:11Pastor Ken:watching. I agree. Yeah, I agree. That's another one. Question number 2 is how do you lead a conversation with a teenager who shares that they are struggling with their faith? So they're telling their parent, I'm struggling with my faith. So how do you how do you help someone in a conversation like

12:35Rachel:that? So I think that just the fact if a child is coming to you and saying that they're struggling in their faith, I think right there is already a win. Because in my mind, I'm thinking if, if a, if a, if a teenager is struggling in their faith, most of the time they're not going to come to you and say they're struggling in their faith. They're going to fake it, hide it. The parents are going to notice it. And they're the parents are generally the ones that are trying to are thinking, how can I bring this up to my child that I think they're struggling in their faith. It's rare that a child comes to a parent and says, I'm struggling in my faith. But I do think, you know, we are like the five people we spend the most time with.

13:16Rachel:And I think if our child comes to us and says they're struggling in our, in their faith, I think we need to look at who their friends are. We need to lovingly make suggestions on how they can improve their walk with God. I'm not for just tossing A devotional or a Bible at my child and saying here, you need to read this. I think it's very important to read Scripture together, pray together, do devotions together. You know, having dinner together gives you a chance to talk about your day, to pray over your meal together, to find out if someone is struggling about something.

13:52Rachel:And I know in our home, we always made it our whole family's problem if one of our kids we're facing something or frustrated about something. We all kind of carried that burden together. We did, you know, like we got to really pray for Bethany. She's really going through it like all of us right now. Like, even for like a real situation, you know, Bethany, she's got a diabetic child. She has very a lot of sleepless nights and we're always all asking each other. Have you talked to Bethany today? How is she doing? Is she is she OK this week? Is things doing a little bit better 'cause she definitely has some struggles with with

14:24Pastor Ken:sleeping? Well, I think dinnertime is a great time to talk about faith and, and questions in general, you know, and we were never threatened with our kids asking us, you know, just because mom and dad believe it, do I have to believe it, right. Even though they grew up in the ministry, you know, that that didn't shock us. And they would ask me a lot of the times, why do we believe? Why? Why do we believe what we

14:52Rachel:believe? And to be honest, it provokes thought. It's thought provoking for us too. You know, I think everyone at any age should always challenge their beliefs. You should challenge your own beliefs always, right? Because that's how cults are formed, right? Correct. So I was always thankful when our kids were like, why do we do that? Or why do we believe that, right? You know, because then we'd be asking ourselves, you know what? Good question. Let us talk about this. Let's all research this together and let's see what the.

15:18Pastor Ken:Script I actually wish I would have done that more in my adult faith because we would have changed a lot quicker right than you know just five years ago we would have changed well.

15:29Rachel:You know our you know our five years ago of changing.

15:31Pastor Ken:Really, it's been like 10 years. Now, yeah, it's been a slow process, but it's yeah, it has, but I lose track of time.

15:37Rachel:But it it's been a good change. But a lot of those changes. Literally came from. Our adult children questioning

15:43Pastor Ken:us about things. Yes.

15:45Rachel:And they were learning about. Things and they. Were like, you know what, I'm really going to take that to

15:48Pastor Ken:heart and think about that. So I want parents to know that there comes a time in your child's life where their, their faith is borrowed because of what you tell them to believe. And then there's a process where they get into their own personal belief. And I don't want parents to be afraid of that. We, we need to be secure in who we are and who we are in Christ, right? So if your teenager says something like this, I'm not sure I believe this anymore. Our first response shouldn't be well, you shouldn't say that, right?

16:22Rachel:You shouldn't say that. Which would be kind of the old way. Of doing things.

16:25Pastor Ken:That's how we used to handle things and how. We were raised. Exactly. You shouldn't think that way, right, That my parents would say that to me. Yeah, we should say, well, why don't you tell me more? Like where? Where's this coming from? Yeah. Don't be threatened by the question. Embrace the question because we all want to learn. Well and honestly. We're all learn. Communicating with us. Exactly.

16:49Rachel:Which is super important for teenagers.

16:51Pastor Ken:Exactly. And and then it might be a, a very powerful point in, in one's life where you tell them that, well, you know, I struggle with that myself. I, I actually did that with Brooke in, in eschatology. Eschatology is, is the study of end time events in the Bible. And her eschatology didn't line up with my eschatology. It does now, but it didn't at one time. So she would pose questions to me as an adult to her father and I would have to pray about it because she she has some really good challenges. So instead of being threatened it it caused me to study more. And then I began to ask my own self the question, Well, why do I believe what I believe?

17:41Rachel:Which led to a road of really recovery.

17:43Pastor Ken:Oh my gosh, it was incredible. So I really thank God for Brooke questioning why we believe what we believe, right? And it's made us a stronger family and a stronger church. Actually, it's made our church grow.

18:00Rachel:Yes, it's. Been and I think we all need to ask ourselves why we. Yeah.

18:03Pastor Ken:So I think we should create a safe place in our homes. I think this is important for parents that we create a safe place in our home, that they can answer difficult questions, that

18:16Rachel:our kids aren't afraid. Well, I want to take this question just one step further because it's like the child that comes to you saying they're struggling your faith. What do you do as a parent with a child that you see straying from their faith? You know, that that's another kind of side of this that I think probably is more common than the child that comes to you and says, I'm struggling in my faith. And I want to say like I have seen through the years of pastoring and you've we both have seen this where parents, I think do when their kids are still under their authority, living in their home under the age of 18, they start giving their kids freedoms to choose whether or not they want to attend church.

18:55Rachel:And I kind of think that becomes the 1st problem in kids strain because I. Think that's a mistake? Aren't coming to church, they're not making the church a priority. And I know the church is just a building. The the people are the church. But when you avail yourself to God's people and the presence of the Lord and the Word of God being preached. There is a beautiful thing that happens and the church was instituted by God. It's the greatest institution ever created by Him. And I don't think kids at 16 and 17 have the ability to really decide that this isn't for me. And I think parents, I think it's the right thing to do to tell your parents while you're living in my home you are attending church with.

19:43Rachel:Us. I agree. And even our kids that were struggling, they always did want to be in church because for them, church was a safe place and they loved God's people. Our boys loved the church, loved God's people. They did even when they were struggling in their faith, they still loved the church. They didn't want to stay home. But I do see often where parents are like, yeah, he doesn't want to come anymore, so we're not making them. I don't know, I kind of disagree with that. I think it's really important to prioritize church with kids. I think. I think it there's a lot that can come from it, and it is

20:19Pastor Ken:God's. Sign. Nothing good is going to come of them staying home while everybody else goes to church, right?

20:26Rachel:What are they going to do? Right.

20:28Pastor Ken:So, yeah, I. Unless they're paying their own way, paying for their own car insurance, you know, we're talking about teenagers now 16, 17, 18 years old, still under the care of you. Yeah. They should be in church. They should be in church. It's a family thing. We are going to church together, right? And ultimately, the Bible says that the Word will not return void. That means it won't come back empty. Yeah. So even though they don't want to be there, that Word is penetrating their heart, right? And it's going to come back. Same way with Nathan, when he left for college the first time and he went to Grand Valley State, he turned his heart back to Christ.

21:09Pastor Ken:And I believe it was those years that he was in church. He want to be in church, but he was in church and God used everything. He used everything to bring.

21:17Rachel:College campus. He did.

21:19Pastor Ken:He did. He used everything to bring Nathan back and today he's stronger in in his faith than ever before. Right. And, and out of that experience, he got called into the ministry and he helped us here at the church. So for a time. So that's awesome. So I, I, I really agree with you. I think parents need to stop

21:39Rachel:doubting. Yeah.

21:41Pastor Ken:And make a decision. Listen, we're all going to

21:43Rachel:church. Right. As for me and my house? We will serve the Lord.

21:46Pastor Ken:That's what Joshua said. So I think that's your first

21:48Rachel:step. If you see your child straying, I think an honest conversation again about their friends. I, I don't think we can stress that enough. And, and just lovingly, you know, not authoritative, but lovingly saying I'm concerned about you. I've noticed that you're, you seem to be straying from the Lord. You don't seem to be living your life to honor God. And I'm very concerned about you because those decisions have consequences for you. And I want you to have a blessed life.

22:15Pastor Ken:That's one thing I think you and I did well is we always talked about as they got like junior, senior year in high school, they're thinking about college and you know their life. And I would tell the boys and you would tell the girl as a family, we told everybody that, listen, the decisions that you are making can affect your future, most likely will affect your future. And you have to be super careful of what you decide to do and how you live your life. And the habits that you are forming right now can ultimate be the habits in your 20s and 30s that you can't get out of.

22:51Pastor Ken:You're trapped now. And they listened, especially Ian. He really listened to those. Even though he strayed, he remembered those conversations and it drew him back, you know, back home. So yes parents, if if Rachel and I can do anything, it is to help you to be firm and making your children go to church.

23:16Rachel:Yeah, I think it's super important, super important. I mean, there's so much to say about that subject, but I think that. Check to we could do a whole pocket. To see if you're doing that and then if you're having honest conversations with them lovingly. Lovingly. You know, you can't just point your finger at your kid and say, hey, you're not walking right with the Lord. You're not making right decisions, you know, because even the Lord didn't do that with us. No, and you know, I it was interesting Pastor Todd was in here getting things set up when I came in today to the room and you weren't quite down here yet. And I noticed on the wall you guys have 3 John 1:4 and it says I have no greater joy than to hear my children are walking in the truth. And that is the Lord parenting us. And I created a series when we were in Armada, when we were pastoring in Armada, called Parenting God's Children. And it came out of the the idea that when we had kids, I felt very unqualified to be a parent because I just didn't have the best upbringing.

24:14Rachel:And I wasn't generally a kid person. So I wasn't super excited about that phase of my life until I had my own children and was surprised by how much I actually love them in such an amazing way. But I really didn't think that I was really qualified. And I had this kind of epiphany when I had after we had Bethany and I was feeling very inadequate and very frustrated with the way that things were going. I felt like I was being impatient and, and the like. And I remember I was sitting with my Bible one day and I was just crying out to the Lord in our the lower level of our house and, and I was just kind of crying out to the Lord about this very thing. And I felt in my heart, you know, I don't want to over spiritualize this like the Lord told me, but I felt in my heart that the Lord was showing me that He wanted us to parent our children that in the same way that He parents us. And I just felt that so strongly, like all of a sudden, like the thought came to me, you need to parent your children the way that God parents you.

25:16Rachel:And I opened up the Bible to that scripture that says He is God is slow to anger and abounding in love. And I was like, wow, that is how the Lord parents. That's a scripture about how He parents us. He parents us by being slow to anger and abounding in love. And so if we can do all things through Christ, who is our strength, then that means we can parent our kids the way that the Lord parents us. And that Scripture, I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in truth. That has every parent's dream that their children are walking in truth. You know, we all want our children walking in truth. It's such a blessing.

25:56Rachel:I mean, their lives are blessed. Your life is more blessed. I mean, it is the truth that that is the hearts cry of every parent. And so coming in tonight and seeing that it just, it just really, it really touched my heart. So that was really cool. So hopefully we answered question #2. Yeah, I think we get. I I I do but.

26:13Pastor Ken:Yeah. Question #3 came in and this was just on one card this whole show tonight, so we have lots of questions that we're going to get.

26:23Rachel:To and. But then some of these questions got repeated by other people, so we kind of see a theme going on

26:27Pastor Ken:here. Yeah, well, this is one person though. This isn't multiple. So this is one person that wrote multiple questions. So but how do you know when to give independence when you know there's room for mistakes, rather than always telling them what to do? That's one of the hardest things

26:49Rachel:you deal with in American, honestly. But it really starts when they're little. You know, you give them as they grow, you level up the responsibility and you should level up the responsibility as they grow and challenge them with greater things. I think it's insulting to kids when parents don't give them enough credit for the things that they're actually capable of doing. You know, you see the parents that think they have to do every single thing for their kid and it's like, no, you need to let them do that. They can do that and that builds their confidence to do greater

27:20Pastor Ken:things. Well, I think because parenting eventually has to move from your control telling them what to do

27:27Rachel:all the time and they. Need that at some point.

27:29Pastor Ken:Exactly. Then to coaching, right and then to counsel yes the and and that's I think that's the hard thing for parents to do And and some people say, well, when they're five, you know, what do I do and I.

27:44Rachel:Don't really think, I don't really think there's one age that you can say because it it could even be different for each child. You know you could be in that

27:51Pastor Ken:control. I think a 5 year old needs to be

27:53Rachel:told what to do. Yeah, a 5 year old is more control obviously. Yeah, but there, you know, some start getting more into a coaching stage, maybe in their teen. Years. Oh, for sure. Middle school years and then and then usually by the time they're, you know, 17, 18, you're pretty much counseling them. You are. And now we're just kind of conferring, you know, I mean, we do offer counsel to our adult children, but we don't, we don't

28:18Pastor Ken:offer our opinions very often. No, unless they're and.

28:21Rachel:Unless they come to us and they want our opinion.

28:24Pastor Ken:If they need our advice, what would you do dad or mom in this

28:27Rachel:situation? We're pretty careful about just calling and saying, hey, we think you're messing up. We think you should do this. We don't do that right. They're they've flown their wings.

28:35Pastor Ken:Well, they're, you know, we call it back in our generation, we call it helicopter moms. And then I don't know if they still call it that. They do where they would just hover over their kids and they would do everything for them. And little Johnny and Sally can't can't even grow up because mom is right there or dad and they are just hovering over them so much. They can't make decisions for themselves, right? And that's not healthy, right?

28:58Rachel:That does not create healthy. Well, I do want to give a practical example, I thought because I, you showed me these questions earlier today and I thought of an example and I was going about my day, you know, kind of a funny example. So, you know, like Ian, I make his lunch. You know, he's, he works, you know, he's kind of in school, he's becoming an electrician. And I get up and make his lunch, But I get up anyways. I get up early and so I'm up and I make his lunch and send him off and I don't have to make his lunch and he doesn't make me feel like, mom, you got to get up, you got to make my lunch. If I make it great. And if I am busy and I can't make it, he throws his lunch together himself and he goes out the door.

29:34Pastor Ken:But there isn't. Oh, he, he, he makes you feel pretty sad. Not really, mom. He's pretty sandwich for he's quite capable. He's quite capable of throwing together.

29:45Rachel:Let's tell the truth. But I do think this. Is real talk now. This is real talk. No, I'm being real. He and he's very appreciative. He'll text me sweet things about, you know, thank you mom, for the great lunch or whatever. He's very appreciative. He doesn't take you for granted, but you know, you do have to let your kids have consequences for the decisions that they make. You know, you have to. When Ian was last year, when he was first starting this apprenticeship, he was having a hard time getting up and, and getting out the door to go to work. And I said to him, you know, he would come down the stairs, like flying down the stairs, rushing because he knew he was running late for work.

30:23Rachel:And I said to him, I go, Ian, you need a better system. Like you need to move your alarm away from your bed so you don't hit your snooze because you got to get up and move away from your bed so you don't go back to sleep. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I know I need to do something. So then a couple weeks later, you and I were going about our morning and it was like after 8:00 and we're. Like we didn't get him up. Ian's really going to be late for work. And you and I just kind of looked at each other and we were like, wow, stinks for him. Yep. Like he's going to be really late for work. He's going to have his

30:51Pastor Ken:coworkers. And after that, he changed.

30:52Rachel:Yeah, and he came down the stairs. He's like, Oh my gosh, I got him so late. I'm going to be so late. I got him and we were like, yeah, well, you know, you need to figure this out, Ian, you can't be doing this. But, you know, there's so many parents that would have went up there and got him up and then they, he would have never learned to get up and be responsible. You know, I'm not going to get my 20 year old up for work. I'm just not, I'm not doing it. You know, I make his lunch because it brings me joy to make his lunch, but I'm not getting him up because that would not bring me joy. I'm not doing that, you know. So no, we're at a stage where we get to pick and choose. But you do have to make them responsible.

31:27Rachel:They have to be responsible for their. Well, let them make mistakes, and that's what makes them.

31:31Pastor Ken:And they own those mistakes, and they learn from their mistakes. Yeah. I think kids today have a hard time because parents are always there to save them. Right? And it doesn't prepare them for the workforce. Yeah. So I have owners of businesses that talk to me a lot and they say I can't find any good help. And it leads to, I think the parenting that we did so much for our kids. They don't, they don't even know to carry a conversation on these kids today or carry a task unless they're told specifically what to do. They have no intuition on them on their own. Well, why is that?

32:10Pastor Ken:Because the parents did it up until they're 18 years old and then automatically, you're just going to switch on a switch and they're going to get a full time job or a part time job and expect them to follow through with instructions from your boss. It's not going to happen. So this is where we have to back off as parents as they get older and let them fail. Right? It's OK. Yeah. Because that's the lessons that they need to learn so that they won't repeat it. Right. Right. So I think about the prodigal son in Luke chapter 15. His dad let him leave.

32:49Pastor Ken:Yeah. He didn't want him to leave, but he let him. And he gave him his inheritance and he foolishly spent it, lived among the swine. He had to fall down. And what happened? He came back to his father and his father welcomed him back home, right? He didn't say I told you so, right? That's another thing my dad will always tell me. I told you you shouldn't have done that. That was that that was worse. The worst thing he could do to me was tell me I told you so or why'd you do that right? And it took me years to get out of that with my own children. And I, I didn't realize how much it hurt me when he did that. But that father in the Bible in Luke chapter 15, such a beautiful love story, welcomed him back home and threw a party. He said, my son has finally come home. So I, I just think it's so important that we allow our kids to fail.

33:43Pastor Ken:It's OK. You're not being a bad parent because you're allowing your kids to fail, right?

33:51Rachel:We noted on here, we said, and, and parents, that's where trusting God becomes as important as trusting your child. You may not always be with him, but God can be, you know, we can't monitor their whole life. You can. There comes a time where you're raising God's children. They're His children. They are. So you have to trust Him with them that He's got their best interest in mind and you have to start backing away and letting them fly. And that's really tough for parents.

34:18Pastor Ken:It really. Is so last question, we have 4 questions for them tonight #4 is what advice do you have for when your child or your teenager argues about the rules that you've set in the house? That's a.

34:36Rachel:That's a probably, a lot of parents probably want that question answered. And again, I think a lot of it starts when they're younger, holding them accountable for their behavior well. I think don't be afraid to

34:48Pastor Ken:explain the why. True.

34:50Rachel:Yeah, I think that's number one. Right, Well, I think it having organic consequences for your actions. You know, I was talking to my niece today and I was telling her how I remember several years ago, I was we were doing a walkthrough for their house. I'm a real estate agent and she they were buying a house and we were doing the walkthrough before their closing. And it was a cold like a November night where it was really chilly out. I think there was a little bit of snow on the sidewalk going up to the front door. And their three little kids were super excited because they were going to be moving into this new house the next day and they were running all around the house. Well, then when it was time to go, she says, hey, everybody needs to get their shoes on. Well, their oldest son didn't want to leave the house because he was so excited that this was going to be their new home that he didn't want to get his shoes on. And he was kind of fighting her about getting his shoes on. And she's like, I'm not going to tell you again, we're going, we have to leave.

35:36Rachel:This isn't our house yet. And so they just started walking towards the car and he's looking at her like, what? What? And she's like, come on, you've got to come, we're leaving. So he grabbed his shoes and he started running after her and he was freezing. And he's yelling towards them to come pick me up, come carry me, carry me. It's freezing. My feet are freezing. And they're like, no, you, you, we told you to get your shoes on. You're the one that decided not to put the shoes on. So now this is what you get. You get to walk to the car on icy sidewalk, freezing cold. And that's just your consequences for not obeying the rules, the rules that we set in our home. And you know, you can attest to this throughout the years, the rules that we had in our home were for the benefit of our children.

36:19Rachel:They weren't for us. I mean, some of them were because we don't want our stuff broke. But when, when a parent tells their kids something, it's for the benefit of that child, It's with that child's interest in mind. My niece was telling him to get his shoes on because she didn't want him freezing on his way to the car. But ultimately, if he wants to freeze on his way to the car, he's going to learn the hard way, you know, and that's just a minor consequence of, of something like that. But.

36:44Pastor Ken:Well, I think, I think it's, you know, I grew up in an age and you grew up in an age where if we would ask about a rule in the home, my dad would say because I said so.

36:54Rachel:It was like seen as disrespect, right?

36:56Pastor Ken:Yeah, and that doesn't work today. No. Kids and and that's not good

37:01Rachel:they. Want the?

37:01Pastor Ken:Why? They want the why, but it always

37:04Rachel:has. Should have been that way

37:07Pastor Ken:because I think if you explain why boundaries exist, why they're important, yeah, I think it would really encourage your children at at least to understand why we have rules in the house. This isn't because I don't trust you. It's because I'm responsible for you, right? And because I'm responsible, you're still under my care. So it shows you that I love you, right? And I think that's important.

37:36Rachel:And a lot of it is communication. I think we're lacking in communication. Parents aren't taking the time to have conversations with their kids. Maybe they're not giving their kids enough credit that they want to spend time with them and have these kind of conversations, but they.

37:51Pastor Ken:Do well, I think. I think we should allow discussion, but don't allow disrespect, right? You can question why mom and dad have made these certain rules in the home. Yeah, but you will not

38:03Rachel:disrespect, right? I think that's a big factor.

38:07Pastor Ken:I think that's a very important distinction between the two. And I would tell a teenager, you are allowed to disagree with me. You are allowed, you are not allowed to disrespect me. And I think a lot of parents are that way. They don't, they lose their cool. They like, go to your room, right? Or, you know, I'm not going to talk to you. Yeah. They're just they're they don't know what to do. So I think that's a big thing with parents today is we can talk about this. We can even debate it, but I don't want you to disrespect me. I'm still your father. I'm still your mother and I want you to respect me because a lot of kids will say, well, dad, that's not fair, right? I don't like that that's not fair. I don't our our kids even said that, Dad, it's not fair. Well, OK, I understand that you think it's not fair, but you don't see the whole picture.

39:00Pastor Ken:You're not thinking clearly. I've lived a little bit longer

39:04Rachel:than. You what other parents are doing isn't the standard. Just because other parents are doing a certain thing, I'm not going to feel the pressure to do that. I'm not doing that. I'm not going to feel the pressure to let my kids go to Mexico on spring break and drink. Because at 18. Because you can drink at 18 in Mexico. Because all the all of their friends parents are letting their kids go to Mexico and drink on spring break. Good for them. You know, I'm not gonna they're they have to answer for their own children. Our kids were not going to do that because we weren't going to go along to get along.

39:44Rachel:And it did cause a riff. It did in our boat with our boys that they couldn't do that, you know, But we were. Not going to bend. You don't get a do over. No, you don't. You don't get a do over with with your decisions that you. Make one time.

40:00Pastor Ken:Right. And one time and you then you regret. I wish I would have never done that if something bad happened. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We, I think the keyword is as as parents, we have to be consistent. Consistency is key. It's just like you and I, we start working out together. We we, you know, you, you hired a coach to train you and then you say, how much would it be to my husband join us? And so I've been doing it now and I love it. I tag along and I love it and and it's benefited us. You know, he really pushes. Us well and both of us doing it

40:34Rachel:together, we encourage one another because even on the off days when we're home. We're working each.

40:39Pastor Ken:Other right? Yeah. But we're consistent. Yeah. And I think that's the key. I think there's a lot of inconsistencies in parenting today. Why? Because we're tired. Yeah, we're just tired. And I get it, you and I were tired lots of times, but we have to create a, I don't know what it is a solitude in us that we're not going to quit. You know, these kids are important. We always wanted to raise children to, to add to society,

41:10Rachel:not take away from society we're raising. Adults. We're raising adults. We always used to say that we're raising adults. We're not raising children, we're actually raising adults.

41:19Pastor Ken:And, you know, sometimes we miss it. And I think it's important, and we'll probably talk about this in another podcast, to say, I'm sorry, you know, I did miss it. I was wrong on that. Yeah.

41:30Rachel:But I'm still the. Parent, and now that our kids are adults, and I hope that parent parents that have younger kids and teenagers can glean from this because it'll, it'll come one day to you. Now we're to the other side of things where our kids are starting to like laugh at us for things that we did, you know, rules that we had that might have been really overbearing because our parents had those rules. So we had to have those rules or, you know, we didn't let our kids read Harry Potter. So they all read them in their 20s and they're like, you guys didn't let us read Harry Potter. We all had to read it in our

41:58Pastor Ken:20s. I think it's because John Hagee said it's of the devil. You can't have it. So I'm like, oh, John Hagee, did you get to?

42:05Rachel:Read Harry Potter when you were growing up, Todd. Were you? No. Harry Potter wasn't around when I was growing up. It's true. Did you like your kids read Harry Potter? I mean, no, we didn't. We didn't let our kids read. Harry Potter. But like, our kids will make fun of us now, kind of in a fun way,

42:21Pastor Ken:yeah. Because we watch the Movies Now, right? We're on #3 or 4 I think.

42:24Rachel:If you're waiting for me to finish book 4 so we can watch

42:27Pastor Ken:the 4th movie but. But I, yeah, we think back of those days and we're like, oh, how foolish.

42:31Rachel:We're, you know, like our kids are making fun of us now, but they're also, so one thing that has been such a blessing is they're also thanking us for things now. They're like, man, you know, I see now why, I see now why. And I'm just, it's, it is such a blessing. It comes full circle eventually. But I know when you're in the thick of it, it can be so tough. I agree.

42:55Pastor Ken:Well, I, I think as we close out this podcast tonight, I think there are really 4 transitions that are happening during the teenage years. And those 4 transitions are control becomes influence, rules become values, borrowed faith becomes a personal faith, and then dependence becomes independence. And that's really what we are to do as parents. We are to help our children become independent. We're raising them to be adults, right? Where they're not relying on mom and dad for everything, right? And I think that's so important.

43:39Pastor Ken:So, so parents, you know, I just want you to know tonight, your teenager doesn't need a perfect parent. They don't. They need a present parent. They, they just need us to be there. They need somebody who listens. They need somebody who will establish boundaries, somebody who will say no when it's necessary. Kids want boundaries. They really do. We all do. We need it as a society. We don't have boundaries in our societies. We go off the rails. So and then somebody who admits that they're wrong, like I said earlier, admit that you're wrong.

44:15Pastor Ken:Somebody who loves them and when it's difficult to love them, you know, it was difficult lots of times, not lots of times, but at times to love our son Nathan. He could be he just cantankerous. Sometimes I'd just call my mother and say mom, you deal with him. He he she could deal with myself.

44:36Rachel:She. Could deal with him like nobody

44:37Pastor Ken:else. Yep, and he was very difficult. And so we Rachel and I understand friends, when you have a difficult child and we have such a loving relationship with him now, but those years were were a struggle. And so but I think through it all, they need to see Jesus in US. And that's one thing that our children have said even on the 30th anniversary where they celebrated 30 years of ministry for us, you know, they always saw Jesus in us. We might not have said they're all the right things or disciplined the right way, but they saw Jesus in us. And I think that's key, you know, if you've, if you've done, if you've done anything that you're ashamed of, I pray that you'll let your children see Jesus in you because God forgives, right?

45:30Pastor Ken:And I think that's so important because that's telling the

45:34Rachel:story. And if you're off track with your kids right now, you feel like you have a disconnect with your teenager, it's never too late to still apologize for sure, to own what you've done, to separate that relationship and to come before them with humility. And it's never too late to do that, to create a new start for you and your child because it's a beautiful thing when it happens. And you know, that is that is

45:59Pastor Ken:ultimately God's design. Exactly. Exactly. So as we close out today, I just want to remind every parent who is listening you don't have to be a perfect parent. You just have to be a parent that is faithful in loving and parenting your children. And there are going to be days that you get it right and there are going to be days that you get it wrong. There are going to be days you just want to start all over, right? And those are going to be conversations for your husband and your wife to to have. And you can you can love, you can listen, you can lead and you can pray for them. Amen.

46:34Pastor Ken:I want to give you this scripture in closing in Galatians chapter 6, verse 9, it says this. Let us not become weary and doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. So Rachel and I can tell you parents, don't give up. Keep the door open, keep the conversation going, keep the boundaries strong, keep grace in your home and above all else, keep pointing them to Jesus. That's what we have to do point our children to Christ because ultimately we're not just trying to raise good kids. We're trying to raise adults to know the Lord who and know who they are and know how to follow Him in their own personal way. So you come alongside of them and it's going to be good. Amen.

47:30Pastor Ken:So well, that's all the time that we have today on Real Talk with PK and I hope you really enjoyed our conversation and I pray it brought encouragement and some practicals, tool tools to you in on your parenting journey. And remember, throughout this whole month of September, we're going to be continuing answering questions, real questions from our congregation, those who are in the middle of it, of parenting their little children. So keep those questions coming. You can contact us below on the screen. So until next time, remember, keep the faith, keep moving forward, keep it real.

48:06Pastor Ken:God bless you and I'll see you next time on Real Talk with PK.